Holiday homework – suggested reading

Much though I don’t wish to admit it, perhaps the best thing to do is to call this thing off? After all, trying to settle this important issue through using the blunt instrument of the referendum device was always going to cause a massive upheaval, be destablising to parliament and the country etc. At any rate, no one from Teresa May down or pretty much anyone else in the government or civil service appears to know what they are doing or what they should do next and even if we did get a proper, real Brexit no one in parliament seems to know what to do with the newly-found independence or would use it for British interests. Cancel Brexit ON ONE CONDITION and that condition is that we are allowed by Establishment to have a proper, modern democracy at long last ie a system of proportional representation so that ALL our votes can truely count wherever we reside in this country and we can then vote for political parties which don’t have this as their single issue but incorporate it as it should be amongst many others. Perhaps, if we had this since the early 1970’s we wouldn’t have got into this almighty mess as a country?

Perhaps surprisingly to some, Steven,

It seems that Sir Ivan is more of a convinced a Brexiteer than you are!

To me, Edward, I hope Brexit results in us returning to the state whereby we regain our national independence, cease being a province of the EU (even a partial one) and where we are in charge of our national destiny once again. Of course, being an EU member is not compatible with those aspirations and Brexit must not deviate from them.

I think the British people are soon going to be pushed too far by the corrupt elite that run the 3 parties the Financial services the Press and Big Businesses

Stephen if you call Brexit off, democracy will never return to the UK. At present only 1/3 of new UK law originates at Westminster, the other 2/3s coming in as Directives that get rubbers-stamped at Westminster. And where do the Directives originate? They originate with the European Commission, that non-elected body at the heart of the EU. The EC sends the new laws to the European Parliament where they are invariably accepted, so just rubber-stamped. So two rubber stamps result in non-elected persons originating 2/3s of new UK law. Call that ‘democracy’? I think not.

As for all of the arguments for ‘proportional representation’, all that would do is change the way that the 1/3 of UK law orginated at Westminster is created. No meaning at all in the bigger picture.

And if you read the Treaty on European Union, after the Lisbon Treaty amendments a ‘European Constitution’, you will see that for all intents and purposes it has Articles in its latter part for transferring power (read: sovereignty) from the Member States (read: provinces) to the EU central government — but no Articles for transferring power in the opposite direction, i.e. returning power to the provinces. Very interesting those Articles. The US and Canadian federal constitutions fixed the power-sharing between the federal and provincial levels of government at their creation, although new areas since such as aeronautics have often resulted in court cases as to which government (provincial or federal) has the power over the new area. The British people have been sold one massive load of goods by successive British Governments over the last half century. If the British people only knew half of the shenanigans that have gone on to sell out their sovereign right to self-government over the past half century, there would be rioting in the streets. I only hope with all my heart that we (I’m British and another nationality) stand up against Mrs. May and her attempt to oppose and turn around the people’s Referendum vote. I find the woman totally disgusting, a liar and a betrayer of the public’s trust. Her treatment of David Davis was disgusting. Two years of hard work the man put in — and the whole time she had Robbins and Europhile civil service preparing her May-Robbins’ Sell-out Scheme, aka the Four Freedoms Retained Via The Back Door..

Absolutely right, Phil. What is the point of abandoning Brexit for a different type of electoral system? So a larger number of MPs can bow to Brussels?

Imagine Theresa May speaking to Parliament: “We will stay in the EU after all because we are ignoring the will of the people so that their will will be better represented in Parliament”

That referendum had last year (the result of which is being overturned) was like a breath of fresh air to me living as I do in a Tory stronghold that NEVER changes hands. For the first time in my life, I had a vote THAT COUNTERED and had EQUAL WEIGHT to somebody else’s who lived in the next door marginal seat. It isn’t unreasonable for me to want to have an EQUAL VOTE at EVERY election not just at once in 40-odd year referendums!

It is categorically incorrect to state that the EU gave you an equal vote. The people of Malta, for example, have a vote that is worth twice as much as yours in European elections because of their smaller population. This was one of the main concerns for UKIP MEPs.

Why do we think we need to adopt another country’s system? Why not learn from PR and develop our own electoral system suited to the specific needs of our country?

Democracy is not in its final death throes here; it is alive and kicking. The Tories are still the party with the largest share of the vote and are in government; just because you dislike that does not make it undemocratic.

If the Germans can make PR work for them we can too. We are not any less intelligent than they are as a nation though effectively Tory and Labour are saying we are when they refuse point-blank to even coutenance holding a referendum on PR. I like to think that of all the peoples on the Continent, we British are pretty similar to the Germans.

We could make PR work; I am not saying it is a bad system, but that improvements such as the one you name could be made and with the retention of some aspects of the current system.

I am a fervent democrat, which is why I believe in leaving every single EU institution. The Tories are the largest, most popular party and it is democratically right that they should be in government. Nations around the world have for decades admired the British democracy and I for one am proud of our country.