Is the single market expanding?

I care little for the Tories or Labour for that matter Theresa May is a disaster remove Her now

Very true. You may have noticed a story run by the Express recently that claimed that plans for a future leadership bid are quite advanced. Apparently, the Rees-Mogg strategy, designed by a pro-Brexit MP and a UKiP member (probably Boris Johnson and Nigel Farage, who have both shown their support for Rees-Mogg on a number of occasions), is intended to be directed at pro-Brexit, socially conservative, and UKiP members. On top of that, the Telegraph reports that Sajid Javid, Michael Gove, Jeremy Hunt, and Gavin Williamson are preparing for their own respective campaigns, and Theresa May has dared them and potential rebels to force a no confidence vote. The only real problem would be Rees-Mogg winning the vote in a Remain-majority parliamentary party. If he did, I have no doubt the rest of the party would vote for him. I would love to see a real Thatcherite PM take us fully out of the protectionist EU.

Far too many Tories have an obsession with free trade to the point it has become a complete fetish and think it can’t have any possible downsides. This is really an ideological notion from the 19th Century Liberal Party and should have stayed with that party. Indeed when the Conservative Party was genuinely Tory eg the 1930’s some Tory leaders were not averse to moderate levels of protectionism ie Stanley Baldwin. Free trade taken to excess can damage a country significantly whereas a limited and carefully-targeted protectionism combined with other sensible policies can help it ie Japan post WW2. The worst thing about the EU is NOT that it restricts free trade to European countries. To be frank, there is no possibility of Britain being able to complete successfully on the same free trade terms as ultra-cheap labour countries like Vietnam. If Tories think there is and they get us out of the EU with this sort of thinking on their minds and follow it through then it may well be the case that Brexit will represent jumping out of the fire pan and into the fire.

https://www.thebusp.org/single-post/2018/06/06/We-Must-Restore-our-Traditional-Values-Liberties

I cannot think of any examples of free trade damaging a country’s economy, but I can think of plenty of failed protectionist policies. Restriction of trade coming to Britain outside Europe is a major problem. Protectionism is Europe is great if we want to bail out inefficient French and Spanish farmers, but I think that is unfair for the British taxpayer and is a waste of money that could be spent on defence and the NHS, and it certainly isn’t putting British interests first. A few factories in the North do not represent the majority of Britain. As for Vietnam, outside of the EU, I don’t think there will be much trouble for Britain to compete with smaller Asian economies, as we are the fifth largest economy in the world, and especially as our market will be more in goods than labour.

Extreme market liberals like Daniel Hannan, Priti Patel ect should remove themselves from the Conservative Party (Mr Hannan is so out of touch with ordinary public opinion he believes in no effective restrictions on immigration at all) and go and form their own libertarian party and see how popular at the polls it is. I suspect not only would it fail to attract legions of voters in places like Liverpool (a city which HAD Tory MPs even into the 1960’s) and other Northern cities it would also fail anywhere else apart from the most comfortable and leafy areas of Surrey or Buckinghamshire.

I have no doubt that the Leave votes in parts of the formerly industrialised North like Barnsley, Sunderland etc were a vote against globalisation and NOT a vote for even more of it as Danniel Hannan etc advocate. Working-class people in places like that may not say this in so many words as not many can explain political concepts very well but those were the sentiments that drove them to vote leave in such high numbers. I really doubt they voted Leave because they had a fetish for abstract ideological economically liberal concepts like free trade.

We really don’t need huge maunfacturing industries. There is abolutely no need to triple taxes for the population of Britain just so 2% of the country can continue working in inefficient factories. These factories brought no real benefit to the economy, and the jobs certainly were not well-paid either. If you want to make an omelette, you have to break some eggs. Globalism is a realist, practical approach to the economy and has worked extremely well for the past two centuries. It is not some unworkable ideology; it has changed this nation from the sick man of Europe to a major world power.

Of course we can compete with Vietnam – We are the fifth largest economy and they are the forty-sixth! A solicitor I met recently with experience in investing invested in the Vietnamese stock market and he lost all of the it almost immediately. They are such a weak economy that they should not even be a factor, especially as our focus will be more on exporting goods. Japan, too, is much weaker than the European nations and America. Prosperity should be judged on the size of the economy; and capitalist, free-trading nations consistently come out on top. We should not aspire to be more like a weaker economy.

The issue for working class people over Brexit was not the effects of globalism, otherwise great swathes of them would not be turning blue at this present time. The problem is vast amounts of immigration coming and taking the cheap labour here which rightly belongs to the native British.

I do not have much admiration for Hannan, though. He has adopted a ridiculous stance on immigration, and wants us to do away with our national anthem. A friend of mine debated him on the BBC, and found him to be quite a difficult character.

Britain is NOT a world power anymore least of all in an economic sense. ‘Our’ economy (if it can indeed be characterised as ‘ours’ since most of it is composed of foreign-owned companies even what should be STRATEGIC ones) has been hollowed-out by rampant globalisation instituted by the high princes and princesses of globalisation and economic liberalism like the Lady Thatcher’s, Bliar’s, Boris Johnson’s and the Priti Patels of this world. I am NOT arguing for Britain to withdraw completely from the world economy but for a more measured approach where we recognise that globalisation has its drawbacks with my point being people like I described above think globalisation has only benefits. I am afraid I consider that to be the wrong point-of-view.

Britain had an effectively closed single market with our former Empire and also the fact we were the ‘top dog’ in manufacturing and business at the turn of the last century enabled this country to appear to benefit from international free trade with no possible downsides. Since we don’t have these advantages anymore we need to recognise that Britain won’t automatically benefit from international free trade in the present era.

Working in a factory is certainly not paying as good a wage as shuffling some figures around on a computer screen in the City of London I agree but it paid better than moving in and out of low-paid jobs flipping burgers and answering call centre calls as happens nowdays in these formerly industrialised areas. Britain DOES need a manufacturing base albeit it one not of simple ‘metal bashing’ but of a high-tech kind. We can’t go on having an economy excessively dominated by finance and services not least for the fact we have a serious balance of payments problem which can’t be financed for ever at an unsustaniable rate. Needless to say before we entered the Common Market/EU and rabid globalisation and economic liberalism began in earnest we paid our way in the world.

Whilst it is true to say that Japan has had quite a few economic difficulties over the last twenty years or more I hope I won’t be accused of being ‘unpatriotic’ when I say that your average Jap would laugh in my face if I suggested to him or her that they swap Britain’s economy with their one. Their economy is still larger than ours or that of Germany’s (another country that has a industrial base and a government that doesn’t dismiss manufacturing as not necessary or as an inconvenience)

Free market ideologues can be just as dogmatic and profoundly silly as the worst Marxist trade union leader.

https://thebusp.org/single-post/2017/07/17/Brexit-A-Rejection-of-the-EU-A-Rejection-of-Globalisation

The problem is mass immigration taking cheap labour from British workers. The industries were nothing else but “metal-bashers” and were a waste of time and money. Outside of the EU, we can give jobs like delivery drivers, farm workers, and construction workers back to the British, drastically reducing unemployment. We can, and are, investing in the high-tech sector, and that will be an opportunity.

We are, however, debating an argument that was won thirty years ago. These days, even if our industries our revived, they would be automated. There would be no miners’ strike because there wouldn’t be any miners. That is why it is worthwhile investing in the tech sector, which could run industries more efficiently, with less danger, and actually benefit the economy.

There is nothing “silly” about this; it is just common sense. Japan’s economy may be big, but the US is bigger. Japan’s economy, like China’s and Russia’s, only began to grow when they incorparated globalist elements. If you look at any economy, you will always find protectionism hinders it and free trade liberates it.

You mention that Thatcher was wrong to focus on the benefits of globalism, but not on the downsides. What downsides are there?

As the fifth-largest economy in the world, with the most respected and highly-trained armed forces, the best intelligence and police services, as a member of the UN Security Council and closest ally to the the world’s largest economy, the US, wth the most widely-spoken langauge and some of the best entrepreneurs, the best broadcasting service, the second oldest parliament, and Harry Kane, we are undoubtedly a world power.

I would vote for Rees Mogg over Hunt or that indian Savid Javid if I were a member of the Con trick party never would I vote for Hunt for what He is doing to the NHS and Javid is a right wing version of Sadiq
khan

I think Rees-Mogg would certainly win in any leadership bid or general election, because of his wide appeal, not only to Brexiteers, but to the disillusioned and more socially conservative parts of the population, as well as those further on the right. However, a leadership contest sounds good, but without the prospect of a Mogg premiership, the alternatives to the Theresa May look quite bleak. Hunt is slippery, Gove is deceitful, Gavin Williamson is unexperienced, and Sajid Javid only appeals to the liberal elite.